Defining relative clause/help

Defining relative clause/help
Message de chienthang posté le 03-11-2013 à 18:03:51 (S | E | F)
Bonjour,

Can anyone tell me if these sentences are correct and if so, what kind of relative clause are they are? defining relative clause, non-defining relative clause or connective relative clause?
1/ The film star gave a party which cost 3,000 dollars.
2/ The film star gave a party, which cost 3,000 dollars
3/ I bought a cell phone which I use to browse the web and send and receive messages.
4/ I bought a cell phone, which I use to browse web and send and receive messages.

If 2 and 4 are correct, what kind of relative clause are they? connective relative clause or non defining relative clause? Are all defining relative clauses always between two commas? How can we make the difference between a non defining relative clause and a connective relative clause?
Thank you very much.
Chienthang

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Modifié par lucile83 le 03-11-2013 18:11

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de lucile83, postée le 03-11-2013 à 18:23:21 (S | E)
Hello,

Here is a helpful link:
Lien internet

1/ The film star gave a party which cost 3,000 dollars. 'that' would be better
2/ The film star gave a party, which cost 3,000 dollars possible, but it has a slight different meaning
3/ I bought a cell phone which I use to browse the web and send and receive messages. 'that' would be better
4/ I bought a cell phone, which I use to browse web and send and receive messages. that sentence sounds awkward due to the comma

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de violet91, postée le 03-11-2013 à 19:15:17 (S | E)
Hello ,

A defining relative clause is part of the determining group defining the noun : a determining clause such as n° 1 and 3 .
In this case , in your examples , which can be replaced by that ( as a relative pronoun ) = qui ( à la star)
n° 2 : a connective relative clause which functions as something concluding : you get a comma , then : ce qui ...( à la star et d'autres) .
It often has an explicative meaning :
Connective :The pupils , who have forfotten their essays , will be punished . ( a comma and a meaning of reason = because ) '. All of them are concerned.
Defining : the pupils who have forgotten their essays will be punished : only those who have forgotten and not the whole class.
n° 4 ....a cell phone which = that ( que ) I use must be written without any comma . Which( or that) is there because of cell phone ( antécédent ) it completes, explains the purpose of ....

Hope this completes what was explained above .

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de chienthang, postée le 04-11-2013 à 13:21:49 (S | E)
Thank you very much for your answers.
Can you please answer my other question: are all non-defining relative clauses between commas?
Thank you in advance.
Chienthang

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Modifié par lucile83 le 04-11-2013 21:39

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de violet91, postée le 04-11-2013 à 14:13:39 (S | E)
Hello again and you are welcome ,

I would say what you call non-defining ( ? ) clauses are all between commas . Would you please give me an example of what you mean , just in case you were confused?
See you.

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de willy, postée le 04-11-2013 à 14:31:36 (S | E)
Hello!

"Non-defining" (= non-identifying/non-restrictive)clauses are normally separated by pauses and/or intonation breaks in speech, or by a comma or commas in writing.

- This is Mr Singleton, who's coming with us tomorrow.
- Mr Singleton, who's coming with us tomorrow, lives next door.

NB: such clauses are generally more formal and less frequent in informal speech. People tend to use shorter sentences when talking.

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de violet91, postée le 04-11-2013 à 14:49:11 (S | E)
Hello , Willy ,

Yes , there are commas or dashes for such clauses .
Sentence n° 2 > The pupils , who have forgotten their essays , will be punished .
Commas as for written language , short oral pause otherwise when speaking . It can also be hardly audible .

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de chienthang, postée le 04-11-2013 à 15:22:15 (S | E)
Hello violet91,
Thank you for your quick response. I would like to know if all non-defining relative clauses must be between two commas. That means I am not sure if these sentences are non -defining relative clauses or connective relative clauses :
1/ My mother gave me this tablet, of which I had dreamed for a long time.
2/ I would like to speak to Mr Smith, who told me to come here today before lunch

Thank you very much. Chienthang

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de chienthang, postée le 04-11-2013 à 15:31:53 (S | E)
Hello Willy,
I have just read your post. So non-defining relative clauses can come at the end of the sentence. If so, I have a question : How can I identify if it is a connective relative clause or a non-defining relative clause?
thank you. Chienthang

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de violet91, postée le 04-11-2013 à 16:23:25 (S | E)
Back to you ,

The answer a lit the commas is easy .
1) You have a rather short sentence : my mother offered me a gift I dreamt of . ( defining) ( that or which I dreamt of , I had been dreaming of ) .
- My mother offered me this tablet , (-) which I had dreamed of for months . ( connective) ( ce dont in French )

2 ) You get a clause between two commas if the sentence goes on and if that precise clause adds a new information to the reader .
My mother , who gave me a tablet for my birthday , had the right idea to make me very pleased . ( non defining, so connective) .
Why do you allude relative clauses being at the end of a sentence ?
What surprises me ...is your questioning about relative clauses !

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Réponse: Defining relative clause/help de willy, postée le 04-11-2013 à 16:51:58 (S | E)
Hello again!
Here are a few more explanations:
Lien internet

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