A question / idiom

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A question / idiom
Message from mohammad51 posted on 05-06-2023 at 23:56:08 (D | E | F)
Hello

Cambridge \ idiom : belt and braces

I know it comes from ( belt and suspender for a pair of trousers) i.e. something to support, fasten, etc.. ( language)

Cambridge : "the use of two or more actions in order to be extra careful about something, although only one is really necessary":

I wrote to them and phoned as well - belt and braces, I admit.

I want to ask about these ( belt and braces. I know idiomatically are used but it must have meaning further more than what is explained by Cambridge.

I guess the writer added to the message something else for making the message well reading, such as abbreviations, acronyms, hints etc...

What would you say ?

Thank you in advance

Re: A question / idiom from lucile83, posted on 06-06-2023 at 07:41:19 (D | E)
Hello,

From Oxford dictionary:
belt and braces
(informal) taking more actions than are really necessary to make sure that something succeeds or works as it should.

Re: A question / idiom from mohammad51, posted on 06-06-2023 at 10:33:38 (D | E)
Hello
Dear teacher lucile83 I know this meaning you brought
I have already mentioned or I already agree with
What Oxford explains is as same as Cambridge .

Cambridge : "the use of two or more actions in order to be extra careful about something, although only one is really necessary":

I wrote to them and phoned as well - belt and braces, I admit.

I want to get correct with the translation of the above sentence into Arabic.

I understand the meaning, but it is wrong to translate it literally as belt and braces ... ?

I perfectly know that the man telephoned his friend and wrote a letter to him.

The man behaviour perhaps is different than usual. He wants to be more keen and sincere to a friend .

Though it is playing with vocabularies, he really wants to send him more things in one time to express his loyalty. You see

For me, I can say " He phoned, wrote a letter and everything else is possible to be put inside the the envelope such as picture, CD, photograph etc.. to mean ( belts and braces ) or to shorten it as ( telephoning, sending message + hints and explanations.....

He wants his message be fully clear and successfully sent

Here is also from another book :

I suspect the fairly recent U.S. usage of “belt and suspenders” is merely a transatlantic translation of the English “belt and braces” which I believe I have seen in pre-WWII British fiction (e.g., “I brought a knife as well as a
gun because I’m a belt and braces man.”). Same range of signification and same register.

Daniel F. Melia
Department of Rhetoric
University of California

Re: A question / idiom from gerold, posted on 06-06-2023 at 16:29:06 (D | E)
Hello

Cambridge : "the use of two or more actions in order to be extra careful about something, although only one is really necessary":

I wrote to them and phoned as well - belt and braces, I admit.
I think this sentence only means that the man wants to be sure that what he has to say will be taken into account. As he probably does not totally trust mail services, he prefers to phone too, "in order to be extra careful".

I want to get correct with the translation of the above sentence into Arabic.

I understand the meaning, but it is wrong to translate it literally as belt and braces ... ? You have perhaps an equivalent phrase in Arabic . Or say something as "I know, the phone call was not really necessary.

I perfectly know that the man telephoned his friend (you don't know whether it's a friend) and wrote a letter to him.

The man's behaviour perhaps is different than usual. He wants to be more keen and sincere to a friend . I don't think so

Though it he is playing with ~~vocabularies~~ words, he really wants to send him more things in one time to express his loyalty. No, it's not the point. and "loyalty" has nothing to do here.

For me, I can say " He phoned, wrote a letter and everything else is possible to be put inside the the envelope such as picture, CD, photograph etc.. to mean ( belts and braces ) or to shorten it as ( telephoning, sending message + hints and explanations..... No, I'm afraid you have too much imagination. The "belt" is the letter, the "braces" are the phone call.

He wants his message be fully clear and successfully sent Above all, he wants his message to reach its recipient.

Re: A question / idiom from mohammad51, posted on 06-06-2023 at 23:18:49 (D | E)
Hello
Thank you very much dear teacher gerold for your good notices as well as to the grammar correction

---
1. Why I suggest to create a new phrase referring to or instead of ( belt and braces )

It is because there are many paired words ( stylistics) in both English and Arabic.

Examples:

seeking and entering \ slips and errors \ My hope and desire \ Hope and aspiration \ His honour and immorality \ His control and power \

scratch and win \ do’s and don’ts \ no more no less \ skin and bone \ flesh and blood \ needle and thread \ ebb and flow \ give and take

And many many else. I can mention at least 500 phrases like these either in English or Arabic.

But there is no equivalent expression to ( belt and braces ) in Arabic only to translate it literally ( trousers suspenders )

2. You added ( The "belt" is the letter, the "braces" are the phone call ) Here perhaps I don't agree with you

simply he did what he ought to do as any letter sender; the message he wrote and he used the phone and called.

Nothing can lead us to think so .... From the beginning we know he wants to take more precautions into his account as much as he can do,

so I think that the man wanted to use \ add another thing else to support his message or calling. I don't know or can't guess the things are

material or technical devices ( style of writing \ punctuation marks etc...), but the one I am nearly sure about, is by all ways the phrase

( belt and braces ) = supporting things ; hence it leads us to say : precautions.

I also read somewhere Spanish translation to the phrase ( belt and braces ) = precautions

and this ( precautions ) can be easily translated into Arabic. There is equivalent phrase as well.

Avoid slang
Slang and jargon are typical characteristics of oral English. They are verbal shortcuts when speakers and their audience share common assumptions and knowledge. Using slang can make what is written appear casual and informal. Compare the formal expression, we will rectify the
malfunction in the computer system with we will fix the hard disk foul-up. Slangy expressions like belt and braces (meaning taking extra care to make sure something is successful) and the use of text messaging abbreviations from mobile phones can also cause misunderstanding. Thus in academic writing, a report, a formal letter or an email should not contain smiley symbols such as :-) or :-( or cryptic SMS (Short Message Service) abbreviations like Which one r u? Who 8 my pizza? See JARGON, SLANG.

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Edited by lucile83 on 12-06-2023 09:46
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